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Senior research psychologist and Google critic Dr. Robert Epstein told popular podcast host Joe Rogan on Wednesday that a “free and fair election” is an “illusion” now, warning about the rise of the “technological elite.”

In June 2019, Epstein addressed Congress over his concerns that Google not only poses a “serious threat to democracy and human autonomy,” but also advising how the lawmakers could “end Google’s worldwide monopoly on search.” Appearing on the “Joe Rogan Experience,” Epstein explained his belief that there hasn’t been a “free and fair election” nationally since 2012, because tech has been used to manipulate public opinion.

“We are finding overwhelming evidence that they are very deliberately and systematically messing with us and our elections, especially. I personally believe that as of 2012 the free and fair election, at least at the national level, has not existed,” Epstein said. “It’s just been manipulated since 2012. I say this in part because I met one of the people on Google’s tech team — on Obama’s Tech Team, I should say — which was being run by Eric Schmidt, head of Google at the time.”

“I talked to him at great length about what the tech team was doing. They had full access to all of Google’s shenanigans, all those manipulations and one member of that team, asked by a reporter, how many of the four points by which Obama won, how many of those points did he get from the tech team? And the guy said … two of the points came from us. Now Obama won by 5 million votes, roughly, and two out of four points came from the tech team — that’s two and a half million votes,” Epstein said.

Epstein, along with several others at the American Institute for Behavioral Research and Technology (AIBRT), released a study that claimed tech companies have the ability to influence decisions of undecided voters through search suggestions on search engines. The Google whistleblower told the Daily Caller News Foundation that search engine operators controlling search suggestions could have “the power to shift a large number of votes without people’s awareness.”

Epstein continued to call out the 2016 election between former President Donald Trump and former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, stating that if Google’s interference had been taken out, the popular vote “would have been tied.”

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“By 2016 I had calculated that Google could shift — and it would be toward Hillary Clinton of course, whom I supported at the time — that Google could shift between 2.6 and 10.4 million votes to Hillary Clinton in that election with no one knowing. She won the popular vote by 2.8 million votes,” Epstein said. “If you take Google out of that election the popular vote would have been tied. Couple days after that election everyone — all the leaders in Google get up on stage … and they’re talking to all of Google’s 100,000 employees and one by one they’re going up to the mic and saying, ‘We are never going to let that happen again.’”

The Google whistleblower added that between President Joe Biden and Trump, if Google had been taken “out of the equation,” Trump would have won “11 out of 13 swing states instead of five.”

“So going forward from roughly 2012 I think the free and fair election has been an illusion, an illusion. And this is something — it’s very weird and kind of ironic, but this is something that Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about in that last speech of his farewell speech he warned about the rise of the military-industrial complex, everyone’s heard about that,” Epstein continued.

“But he also warned about the rise of a technological elite that could someday control public policy without anyone knowing. And the technological elite are now in control. That’s what we have. That’s where I get back to my ranting and my pain because I realize no one is paying attention! Eisenhower said we have to be alert or this will happen,” Epstein said.

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